Money for gigs

THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM

Band members never want to talk about money when it comes to gigging. They fear that they'll be called "sellouts" and their devotion to playing shows for the love of it will be questioned. It's a joke.

Being a sellout is "doing something you hate purely for the money" e.g: having a job you hate. The only question you need to ask yourself is: What can I do to get myself out of this crappy sellout situation? Trying to turn your hobby of playing music into your living is pretty hard (I still haven't managed it yet) but can only start by stating a realistic fee to promoters who ask you to play a gig.

So my next question is:
Do you want your band to get paid to play gigs?
You do!
Then read on.
You don't?
Then go and read something else.

TAKE ADVICE FROM THE RIGHT PEOPLE 

Lately, I've been sitting back and reading peoples blogs, articles and comments and it's pretty clear to me that some of these guys that claim to have been successful in this little metal "scene" are actually talking pish.
They tart up their words and convince people that they know what it takes to be in a "successful" band without ever being in one, how to run a "successful" band without ever running one, or put on a "successful" show without actually paying anyone. Personally, I think you should only get advice on how to build a good solid wall by somebody who has built a good solid wall.

Then you have those guys that complain about not getting paid but are too scared to ask for money (or don't know how to) when someone asks to book them.
Some even go so far as to say bands shouldn't be paid. If you're one of those people then you might as well stop reading now.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to get paid for something you love doing.

People are patting each other on the back and telling everyone what a great job they're doing for the "scene" while band after band are splitting up because they can't afford to be in a band anymore.

Bands that are playing a gig for free are even getting slagged off because they choose to mention whilst they're playing that they have merch for sale at the back of the room. Merch is the only way some bands can make any fuel money so they NEED to advertise it when they are on stage.
Worse still, you're getting bands slagging off other bands because they're not sticking around to watch the rest of the show and massage the ego of the headlining band. In my experience, that only really happens when the turn out of that gig is shit and the headliner is a bit miffed that nobody has turned up to see them. So they take it out on the support bands who are prob playing for free and have to leave the gig early because they have work in the morning.
Or maybe they think the headliners are shit. I won't watch a band I don't like.

It's pissing me off. So I thought I'd write a little blog for band members to read and hopefully give them some idea on how how to pluck up the courage to ask for some money for the gigs you play to help you continue to be a band.

I don't really consider any of my bands "successful" as I've always had to gig & work at the same time. Sure I've been signed by record labels, endorsed by companies, played hundreds maybe a few thousand gigs with both my bands 4ft fingers & Reign of Fury over the years and had an amazing time and even pulled some big crowds but success to me is about my "hobby" becoming my living. Or at least contributing to my living. I'm fed up of bands playing gigs for "exposure" alone while someone else gets to pocket all the money.

I have managed to get my band paid for gigs using contracts and non-refundable deposits so in that department I feel I am qualified to give advice about it.

MONEY IS NOT A DIRTY WORD!
 

Money, Maltesers and Tabassco sauce: 3 things every band need more of.

The only people in the music business that don't take the business side seriously are the band members. Not only that, they are made to feel bad about even talking about money.

REPLACE THE WORD "SCENE" WITH "BUSINESS"
 
Being in a band is expensive! Especially if you're in a touring band. Everything costs money. Your gear, fuel, rehearsals, merch, van hire or van maintenance (if you own one), insurance, beer, food, accommodation, everything. Even getting the day off work for the gig means it's costing you money straight away.

In the first stages of band life, money doesn't even come into it. You're a bunch of mates that get together every week to play some tunes. Musical talent has nothing to do with it (thanks to Punk Rock) and it's all about having a good time. You might even be rehearsing in a bedroom or garage somewhere like I did back in the day so you don't even need to pay for rehearsals. Bonus.
For some of us, life will never be the same again. You''re convinced you'll be as big as Metallica or Maiden one day and nothing is gunna stand in your way.
The dirty word, A.K.A. money, means nothing at this stage, but as you play more and more, that attitude will need to change.
You can't do what you love to do for very long if you're not getting paid to do it.

THE COST

Remember, everything costs money, keep that in your mind. The cost of a gig will vary from band to band. You will have to pay for van hire, fuel, maybe hotel rooms and maybe even crew ie: merch guy or sound guy and food money. For Reign of Fury that brings our cost of playing a show to about £270 minimum. And that's before any food money is even considered or if the show is too far to drive home after.If we stay somewhere, we'll have to pay for accommodation and an extra day's van hire. That would push the cost up at least another £150. So doing a show for any less than break even means we would be PAYING TO PLAY.
And we all hate paying to play!!
 
Now, lets assume you have no manager yet. Luckily in 4ft fingers we had a great manager that did everything for us (Darren from Crucial Talent). For the first few years he did it for nothing. Then when he started bringing the money in he started to take a small percentage. You've done all the ground work for the last 2 years by playing every toilet in the country. You no longer need sat-nav or a map to find the venues as you've played them so many times now. You've started pulling crowds so now the audience is no longer just the sound engineer whilst his dog walks around the place finishing peoples beer!! (Yes this did happen in Derby at The Victoria Inn. The dog is prob dead now. Come to think of it I bet the sound man is too). You're actually getting promoters chasing you for a show now instead of you begging to play.
This can only mean one thing. They see value in your band. They want you to play so that you can bring in paying punters so they can make some money. Now is the best time to mention the dirty word...MONEY.

WHAT TO ASK FOR

Don't take the piss!! It takes a long time to get £500+ and to get that you'd better be pulling big crowds. So be realistic.
Deal with "Guarantees"! This means you get your agreed fee NO MATTER WHAT!!
If you're in the early stages of playing then you can't ask for much but even £50 guarantee is something. And that's better then nothing.It also means you'll be on the next rung of the ladder.

If a promoter is selling tickets for £5 and 80 people turn up, that means he's made £400 on the door! £50 of that is not too much to ask for. If he's asked you to headline then £150 guarantee minimum as a starter I don't think is taking the piss.
I got very pissed off that the RoF manager let us go out for £150 a few years ago with the ticket price being an average of £8!! That means 100 people in (it was usually more) would rake in £800. Not very fair at all.
I do want people to make money, but I just want our fair share.

So, before you reply to any email to any promoters be prepared to walk away if the deal is a shit one. (Charity shows and festivals are a different).

You'll get an email from a promoter asking if you're available for a show on so and so date in such and such a place. Reply politely asking whether you're headlining or supporting. If they want you to headline, state your fee and terms & conditions. (I'll cover support slots later).
I always state our fee plus beers & snacks with 50% non-refundable deposit upfront via bank transfer. The booking is only confirmed when the contract is signed and returned AND the deposit is paid.
The non-refundable deposit acts as a cancellation fee too. So if the promoter cancels, we keep the money.I have found that none of the gigs I booked this way were cancelled and they all had a good turn outs too.
Be prepared to haggle. I usually price RoF with room to haggle unless I've dealt with the promoter before and we already have an understanding.
If the "promoter" disappears without a trace when you mention money, they are not worth dealing with!!

ALWAYS USE CONTRACTS

Get used to using contracts. They are a bit of a ball ache but they are invaluable. I've taken print outs of our contracts to shows and managed to get the money owed when they refused to pay and beer brought to the dressing room when they tried to not supply it. It's a legal agreement and should be respected.
On the other side, when I had to take over the "management role" from someone who didn't use contracts and refused to tie up the loose ends I found that on at least 3 occasions the fee given to me after the gig was £50 less than what was apparently agreed with him according to the gig notes in the band calender. Without a contract I just had to accept what the promoter was telling me and I didn't have a leg to stand on. Without that piece of paper in your hand it can be very frustrating.

Once the fee is confirmed, the contracts are signed and the deposit is paid, you are locked in. Respect the agreement and do your bit to promote your show. Turn up in good time and play to the best of your ability. Be nice to the staff and promoter. Remember, the more people that turn up and have a good time, the better chance you have of being booked again. When the crowd grows, you can ask for more money for the next time you play.
But keep it realistic. Don't think you can go from £50 to £500 with your second show in that venue.

That really is all there is to it at this level. Bands are too willing to play for nothing year after year partly because they fear that if they ask for money the promoter will turn them down and it'll be hard to get another show. If you're good enough, they'll come back.

Support slots are slightly different. You're there to promote your band in front of another bands crowd, alot of whom prob will not have heard of you so don't expect any fee at all. But if you deem it worth doing because the crowd is guaranteed, then go for it. Don't be afraid to ask for £50 and/or beer though.
Door deals are another thing too and can sometimes be better than a guaranteed fee.But sometimes a lot worse! I'll cover that another time.

Never make the mistake of agreeing to play a show then when it gets to a week before the gig, you then ask how much you're getting payed. It's totally unprofessional and will not end well. Especially if you then pull out because you can't actually afford to play the gig. If a band did that to me on a show I booked, I wouldn't book them again.

Finally, have some confidence and believe in yourself. Be realistic and start low. Anything is better than nothing. And coming straight in with money talk will let everyone know where you stand.
You'll be surprised at how easy it is.
If I can do it, anyone can.

Magic Dave

Check out my band Reign of Fury:
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/reignoffury/

Death Be Thy Shepherd full album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOXn7cwhMU

Our online store:
www.reignoffurylive.bigcartel.com